That is terrible. Obviously for both sides, but this is on another level. I feel bad for all the innocents that are slaughtered, and are going to be slaughtered because of this.
Did you read the article? This is absolutely not the time for “both side” ism. It’s time to condemn a clear atrocity.
So let’s just ignore the past 40 years of atrocities against Palestine because now it’s Jewish children getting killed instead of the normal Arab kids? You can’t have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat.
Okay so for arguments sake let’s say every Palestinian attack is justified and every Israeli attack is not.
Now what?
Now repeat after me:
“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”
The atrocities started in the late 1800s. Well, the most recent round of atrocities.
I did and said it was on another level. Did you not read my comment?
To what end? What sorts of events are more likely to occur if the entire western world decides that these were subhuman attacks and does not taint the condemnation with warnings of retributive death tolls?
You likened this to someone questioning 9/11 in another comment, and that’s very right. After 9/11 the idea that “the Taliban” did atrocities and urging restraint was offensive led to 20 years of war and hundred of thousands of dead. When war fever is rising, the correct response is to tamp it down, not castigate people for saying “this is terrible, but we shouldn’t slaughter innocent people”.
The end is that babies were mass murdered. That is unequivocally BAD. And universally terrible. It’s something evil that, let’s say Nazis, terrorists do.
Sure. And what does that have to do with not questioning the death of babies Israel is inflicting in response?
And there’s the “what about”ism.
Yeah… no. Killing babies is bad period mmmkay.
That someone would mention the literal killing of babies by Israel is the whole fucking thing you were objecting to. Sorry to intrude on your righteous war fever with the small issue that the response is literally doing the thing you say is “bad period”.
OP’s (and my) stance is that killing babies is bad, period. You’re the one who seems unhappy that the tragedy you want to think about is being related to the actual killings or children that are ongoing. They’re both fucking horrible, but you don’t seem to think the Palestinian children are also innocent and deserve to live as well.
“These are monsters and don’t talk about what we’re doing in response” is the cry of the warmongers lusting for retribution.
“worry you can’t point out the literal war crimes of one side of this three sided war, because one of the other three sides also commits them”
And if you point out the hypocrisy, you’re a nazi or anti-semite. Because apparently the government and military of the country of Israel represents ALL jews.
And I guess bothering to point out that the situation isn’t a simple “take out one group and MAGIC PEACE!” solution that people seem to be implying. Plus the fact that anybody slightly questioning the official story gets shit on when the official story is basically the exact excuse the GOVERNMENT (not the people) of Israel has been waiting for to get what they want, and have made no secrets about for decades.
Maybe if we hadn’t stuck our collective noses in it for the last 80 years, they’d be a lot better off.
Por que no los dos?
It costs me nothing to have compassion for those suffering and dying. I can condemn horrors while feeling deep sorrow. Every news article from this region will be tragic for a while.
Don’t let terrorists crush your humanity.
I reckon it’s going to get decently worse before it gets better unfortunately.
I agree. This pot has been on and off the boil for decades, this latest boil over will be going for a while. I feel sickened by the thought of the news from the region in the coming weeks.
Leaving this from the Reddit thread, since it was put so well:
I look forward to seeing how this is excused, justified, and quietly cheered on by some of our fine members. No doubt the babies were “guards” in the “open air prison” and were in fact apartheid babies.
And hey, you can’t blame people for murdering dozens of babies, as long as those people have hard lives. And of course being known as the sort of people who would murder a bunch of babies has NOTHING to do with why they have hard lives.
Edit: Ok so far the top winners are, in no particular order:
“They had it coming”
“I’m not saying that they had it coming, but they had it coming.”
“Give peace a chance.”
And my favorite, the short lived “It didn’t happen.”
Add this one to your list: “Hamas is the monster Israel created.”
Enjoy no replies because the sheer amount of documentation of Israeli support for Hamas over any peaceful coalition is overwhelming.
Let’s see how many sides there are to your face. Do you blame the US for ISIS?
Is that a trick question? I thought ISIS arising due to US actions was an accepted fact, not up for debate
Of course it’s not up for debate, but the other poster won’t say that because it goes against their argument about Israel not creating Hamas.
Yes
Absofuckinglutely
Yes
Absolutely, duh.
no need to justify this, the scale of dead kids is still tipped HEAVILY towards Palestinians.
Do you mean more Palestinian children have been killed or the Palestinians have killed more children? Isn’t it great that its ambiguous enough that I even need to ask?
Solving terrorism with war crimes sounds about right for 2023
Isn’t it great that its ambiguous enough that I even need to ask?
thats the things. its not. the number are out there for everybody to see but you just dont hear about it.
95% of all victims of this conflicts are palestinians. lets stop pretending the numbers are similar.
What I will say on this, and check my most recent comment I will never defend these actions, is that Israel has an enormous defense industry that is linked, by design, to their huge grasp on the IT industry.
I have no reason to believe this isn’t true, but I also do have reason to believe that Israel has a better grasp of disseminating information that is beneficial to them and they have contacts in the absolute highest echelons of global tech and defense.
This is disgusting and shameful and I would have hoped for better from the oppressed.
I feel horrible for the children, but I assume this level of violence is happening due to the fact that these “border communities” are the houses/land/farms the Israelis have been strait up stealing from Palestinians lately… saw a video of them just throwing a family out on the street and stealing their house for, whatever bullshit reason they had. Israel has been taking people’s homes and lives for decades expanding their borders illegally.
No one should murder children. But you probably shouldn’t steal people’s homes and put children in them.
That would be in the west bank, not Gaza. Gaza has very steady borders and no encroachment for a long time and Gaza is where the attack came from.
I admire that you’ve come with facts. Hopefully people will actually learn rather than parrot the narrative.
Like, Iran and Syria planned this. They literally gas their own people. They just brutally attacked hundreds of innocent people. How is Lemmy apologizing a clear atrocity? How can you be so frickin callous and blind to the hate?
It’s like going to New Yorkers on 9/11 saying, “yeah, it was inevitable” and then blaming Wall Street or some sort of thing.
Those New Yorkers would have been incredibly prescient to say that in the moment.
I feel horrible for the children, but
There should be no ‘but’ when talking about the murder of children and leave it at that!
I feel like Lemmy is at a critical junction of its future development and sentiments like these are what turn people away.
Lemmy has truly shown an ugly side these last few days and it’s sad to see.
Lemmy has shown that it understands that Israel murders more innocents and children. Israeli genocide is cool tho, gotcha.
Just a sickening world view but you exemplify it well.
When people use but in this context, it’s not a rationalization, it’s a contextualization. For some reason we keep going back like Israel has done absolutely nothing wrong in any capacity, and that’s just plainly false.
Surely you can at least admit that Israel has not created an environment conducive towards peace.
agree, but it’s not just lemmy, it’s every social media site. On bigger ones like reddit it’s just easier to only interact with specific groups. lemmy has the problem of being very small, so if a bunch of people leave it will hurt more. It feels like this conflict has always been unique in how polarizing it is.
A swing and miss bro, but at least you tried your best to whatabout/bothsides 👍
(see other comment on Gaza vs. West Bank)
I know that a lot of people are debating the accuracy of some of the more grotesque details and how much is propaganda or truth, and a number have pointed to the lack of official confirmation for some of those claims as evidence of exaggeration.
While I can’t speak to the specifics of what did or didn’t occur in Gaza or what Israel’s official stance is going to be about victim dignity vs transparency, what I can speak to is the nuances of official reporting for the theater attack in France years ago.
Initially eyewitness reports came out that discussed some of the degree of mutilation and torture that occurred over the hours the terrorists held the hostages. Which were later officially denied.
Unfortunately, we had a friend that was present at that attack, and to put it lightly the more detailed initial reports only scratched the surface of what he described having occured. He later took his own life because of the severity of the PTSD.
I don’t know how or why the official response was to say those things hadn’t happened or downplay the hyperviolence of what occurred. And I have no idea if those reasons would extend to Israel’s approach here.
But having heard firsthand eyewitness testimony of the violence and cruelty taking place to hostages of another Islamic terrorist attack, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if the rumors in this case were all true. Similarly, because of the prior situation, I don’t see the lack of official confirmation as evidence that they aren’t.
Personally, I’d hope whatever those reasons were to deny or suppress details might change in the future, as the world should know what really happens in situations like that and what horrors survivors actually went through and the burden they carry following it.
Hamas is not related to ISIS.
As the U$ fueled the rise of ISIS it’s not too surprising that they incorporated tactics from the U$ School for the Americas.
still a drop in the ocean of dead palestinian children.
I agree that comparatively the dead children scales are undoubtedly on the side of the Palestinians. But that does not make this ok. Any eye for an eye and all that. This is disgusting, my support for the Palestinians is unwavering but I am disgusted in their representatives that support and commit this.
It is not ok and should not be accepted, I didn’t defend it when it was Palestinian children and I won’t downplay it now when it is Israelis.
But that does not make this ok
nobody said it was.
im so sick of this attitude
You’re the one who opened with a comparison.
I got banned the other day for saying zionists reap what they sow. No, I don’t support hamas, but apparently that’s implied for having an anti zionist perspective lol
Right wing, theocracy is bad regardless of what religion it is. I wish people would stop letting them hide behind anti-Semitism.
Plenty of people are actually, you’re not and I didn’t say you are. I support Palestine and have done for my whole grown life, this was not a black or white comment.
you need the dead kids to be on a specific team before caring?
no, i care about them all. but if you are implying theres more israeli victims you are misinforming people. its literally the opposite and not even close
can you cite the specific sentence where they implied this?
i meant OP
im aware
No, but the Israel supporters sure seem to.
I was listening to MSNBC the other day and they were rightfully reporting that a lot of the prisoner exchange is going on our right now or for women and children because Israel too also imprisoned children.
We’ve got to stop back and like get real some good actor here. They can both suck you know
have you considered responding to instances of that happening, instead of downplaying the butchering or children because someone reported on said butchering
That’s exactly the point. Nobody in the media or here on Lemmy or in any of the other outlets in general even cared when it happened. So instead we’ve created an environment where people have ignored one situation and are responding to another and it completely strips the entire conversation of the context that’s required to understand it.
It’s like a routinely and sadistically bullied individual going into a school and shooting up the place. It’s deplorable, it’s unethical, but the context needs to be there for any honest conversation.
How is anyone supposed to solve this mess if we’re not willing to look at root causes and original feelings from which this violence occurs?
i dont have a problem with adding context, i have a problem with downplaying the butchering of children
Nobody in the media or here on Lemmy were in any of the other outlets in general even cared when it happened
im assuming this is hyperbolic, if you actually never saw any sympathy for palestinians or mention of israels crimes on lemmy id be shocked
even reddit regularly saw highly upvoted threads about israels borderline if not outright genocidal practices
CNN, the organisation this article is from, has been reporting on it regularly
In an interview with Israeli Government spokesperson Mark Regev earlier this week, CNN’s Jake Tapper said that Israel has killed more Palestinian children in the past three weeks of the military offensive in Gaza Strip than “the total number of Israeli soldiers killed in military operations since 2006.”
“If my calculations are right,” Tapper said, “Israel has, in the last three weeks, killed more Palestinian children, more than 200, than the total number of Israeli soldiers killed in military operations since 2006, which includes the second Lebanon War, Operation Cast Lead, Operation Pillar of Defense, and now Operation Protective Edge.”
The host of CNN’s The Lead continued putting the Israeli official in the hot seat by asking “at what point does the Israeli government say, enough, we’re killing too many innocent children?”
Nobody even looks until the bullied kid has enough and decks the bully right in his fat, hypernationalist mouth, then the adults all freak out protecting the bully and the “aggressor” gets punished.
Let’s not pretend the world is any different than a high school.
and decks the bully right in his fat, hypernationalist mouth
its immensely depressing that the comparison of murdered children to a fat hypernarionalist getting decked made it all the way from your brain to your mouth without hitting a single hurdle
And this is why Israel is like Ukraine and Palestine is like Russia in this war. Which is why it isn’t surprising at all that Russia and Palestine and best buds.
IDF says.
Israel routinely terrorizes and kills Palestinians, men women and children. The result is they support Hamas, who then in turn kills men women and children.
Nuke the whole goddamn area, and when it’s one big slag of green nuclear glass, put up a monument to human idiocy and terrorism.
