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Holy shit.
I thought this was just going to be a matter of poor security implementation or crappy feature sets.
Turns out they converted the company into a loan shark operation owned by Chinese ad companies
when the Opera browser continued losing users (due to competition from Google and Apple), the company shifted gears to building mobile apps that provided predatory short-term loans. The interest rates on those loans ranged from 365-876% per year, and loan terms from 7-29 days.
This behavior is just beyond batshit. Before anyone decides tl;dr, the article is well worth a read.
I had a hunch that Opera was circling the drain when I started seeing them sponsor Youtubers. A general rule of thumb is that no company that has anything worth a shit devolves to sponsoring Youtube videos. I had no idea about the predatory loans thing, or the crypto scam chasing thing, or the ripping off ChatGPT thing…
Back here in reality, there is no reason anyone should be using any other browser than Firefox. There is one organization left in this arena still devoted to protecting privacy, maintaining open standards, and a fair and open web for all. And it ain’t Google, it ain’t Microsoft, and it ain’t Opera.
And it’s always been Firefox since day one. Out of the ashes of Netscape Navigator rose Firefox and Mozilla have been one of the only bastions of the free and open web ever since. I honestly don’t understand why anyone would use another browser.
Fear of change and effective marketing. Those are the only reasons.
Actually it’s an effective cloud-based password manager that doesn’t rely on local storage or weird plugins or backups.
That’s what keeps me using chrome. I could lose everything in a house fire, pick up any device, log in and have access to all my stuff without any further action on my part, right out of the box.
That’s the only feature I care about, and chrome is the only browser I’ve seen that provides it.
Get me that in firefox, and I’ll switch today.
What are you talking about? Firefox has had literally Sync since before Chrome existed.
Firefox Sync initial release: December 21, 2007
Google Chrome intial release: September 2, 2008 (Beta), (1.0) December 11, 2008
A full year, my guy.
I’m confused since Firefox Sync has been letting you sync/backup your passwords, bookmarks and history for a decade or two at this point, and you can even self-host the sync server.
I don’t know the complete FF password manager details (Bitwarden user here) but where does Firefox fall short for you?
You can lose your Google account in the blink of an eye with no recourse, no access to support or anything.
With local and my own backups, I can choose to put them at any location, cloud or local.
I have all that functionality today with FF… Not sure when you last checked, but if you create a Mozilla account and log in to FF you can sync all the same stuff as Chrome does.
Checked it out: apparently I had a mozilla account at one point in time. Hit ‘forgot password’:
Note: When you reset your password, you reset your account. You may lose some of your personal information (including history, bookmarks, and passwords). That’s because we encrypt your data with your password to protect your privacy.
Forgot your password: fuck you.
This is the exact fucking opposite of the behaviour I’d ever want from a password manager.
I think that’s what most people want in a password manager. The only way to have a truly secure pw manager is to encrypt it and failsafe to delete. That way if your identity gets stolen or email compromised, it limits the damage.
Forgot your password: fuck you.
This is the exact fucking opposite of the behaviour I’d ever want from a password manager.
Wait wait wait wait, you’re telling me you want the people who hold your password to be able to view them without your explicit permission (entering a secret that unlocks your vault)? Because that’s what you’re asking for - if they can reset your password and provide you your plaintext passwords, that means they can 1) read your passwords if they chose to and 2) you can be phished and have your account stolen and passwords provided to some rando.
The convenience offered by that “feature” is outweighed by the potential consequences of it existing. Passwords should absolutely be a Trust No One (TNO) solution.
That’s great until Google finds that one picture of your child at the pool and immediately deletes your CSAM-harboring filthy account.
Looks like you best get to switching.
Sadly chromium is often the only supported browser for a lot of web apps. Sometimes not even chromium but just chrome in particular. Chrome has basically inherited all the downsides of internet explorer of yesteryear except it doesn’t run like shit yet.
I wonder if it’s really a lack of support and not just a user agent string check for lazy development.
and google sabotaging shit so it only works on their platform.
Like they did with youtube and Edge (before they finally gave in to googles terrorism and switched edge to chrome base)
like they are doing with youtube and adblockers.
I’ll say this. I use chrome and I KNOW I need to switch to Mozilla. It’s just such a pain to switch that I inevitably go back. Maybe this is the wake up call I need.
Cuz Firefox was for a long time just some shiiiiiiit. It was overloaded, blocky, seemed outdated etc., so ie wasn’t any worse. When chrome came, whooo.
Now tho, I am simply still prejudiced against it. And I found Edge suits me ideally so I don’t care for any other browser. Until my adblock stops working, then I’ll run.
I also left Firefox for Chrome many years ago during that time period, but Firefox has been good again for quite some time. They did a big refresh called Quantum several years back and solved most of those issues. Give it a try.
They also solved the “issue” of XULRunner and all associated functionality, not offering anything instead.
I had to move from
conkeror, and now jump between FF and SeaMonkey. The latter lags behind a bit in porting FF functionality.To each his own, I guess.
SeaMonkey is not dead yet.
I do not agree with your generalisation of YouTube sponsorships, but with the rest I absolutely agree with.
Honestly, I read something about Opera being vaguely connected to shady Chinese companies right before I started recommending ppl to switch away from Opera or Opera GX. Glad I stuck to that, looks like my intuition did not fail me.
You, uh, really feel that the likes of Raid: Shadow Legends, Nord VPN, Honey by PayPal, Raycons, and HelloFresh are really making a positive contribution to the world that we can’t do without?
I mean, what’s the problem with NordVPN? Pretty much every youtuber I respect who does sponsorship promotes it, and I’ve never heard anything bad about it. Generalizing like that is always bad (or well, mostly always, or ironically I would be generalizing).
I think there might be a few exceptions, but generally it’s just loot boxes and predatory games.
there is no reason anyone should be using any other browser than Firefox.
Yeah. And everybody should use the same brand of shoes, drive the same model of car, buy at the same store, eat the same food…
God forbids people having different tastes, opinions and needs.
There is one organization left in this arena still devoted to protecting privacy, maintaining open standards, and a fair and open web for all. And it ain’t Google, it ain’t Microsoft, and it ain’t Opera.
Yeah, and it’s not Mozilla either.
Yeah, and it’s not Mozilla either.
Which one do you think it is, then? Genuinely curious here. I don’t disagree with on most of what you said - I find the simping for Mozilla (and sneering towards chromium) here in Lemmy rather annoying. Mozilla and its browser both have shortcomings as well, and choosing a web browser these days is, as most things in life, choosing the lesser of evils vs. one’s own needs.
Which one do you think it is, then? Genuinely curious here.
I simply don’t assume that an org/com actually exist which is concerned users’ privacy. Mozilla just follows the money, as any other corp.
Protecting my privacy is a task I prefer to delegate to mybrain(.org).
Good. We think alike 👍
Wow. Deleting the app now.
Yeah, I was a huge fan but the moment they changed the engine it was just Chrome in different skin. And later the news that they were bought by a Chinese firm doing shady stuff just confirmed that it was the right decision.
I am sad that they did not open source the engine. Somebody leaked it, but no one serious would touch it for legal reasons.
For me old Opera is an artifact of the bygone era, together with old Skype and Hamachi, when some proprietary software would really work well and even support Linux.
Opera actually even released FreeBSD versions, if I’m not mistaken.
Skype - we all know what.
Hamachi still works =)
It’s been that way for years now.
Yeah the surprise in this thread is surprising to me. I’ve considered Opera to be untrustworthy for years now.
I knew not to use Opera GX as soon as they started sponsoring youtubers. I swear, youtube sponsorships are like anti-ads. 9 times out of 10 they’re doing something sketchy.
When I see a product I already use being promoted by YouTubers in sponsored segments, I immediately question if I should be using it, even if I’d have happily continued had I never seen that sponsorship.
Absolutely true. I remember every YouTuber and their mother shilling out for LastPass a few years back. Now that their reputstion is kind of in the dumps after several “noncritical” hacks I see those same YouTubers shilling out for Dashlane.
It just gets worse if you try to think of any serious sponsorship program by companies that are, to date, trustworthy. There are none because they don’t need them. Word of mouth is good enough for them because the customers they have will stay being customers for a long time. Long enough that they bring in more people just by being happy about the service.
Same with Express/Nord VPN sponsorships. Many people debunked the adverising BS they were spinning about blocking tracking when really it only masked a tiny subset.
As someone who studied infosec, those ads were infuriating. Now I just sponsor block it all because I’m beyond tired of it.
Really like Mullvad for that. They don’t pretend a VPN alone makes you invisible for tracking nor do they pretend it makes your browsing much more secure. They don’t do any BS sales either. You get what you pay for and they are very upfront about what you get (mostly ISP block and region lock bypass).
Haven’t seen a YT sponsorship for them yet either so that’s another plus in my book.
I left LastPass as soon as they started screwing with the free product. Same with Evernote. It’s fine to make a non-free product. But if you make a free product with premium settings you can’t go back and pinch the original user base by taking features away. Those companies *products always fail.
Lol, now that I think of it I had never seen a YouTube ad or sponsor where I would say “this is an ethical and fairly priced product without a catch that I would like to buy”…
I only saw a decent product once, it was Henson razor. Not sure if it’s ethical and fairly priced (those are somewhat hard to tell, imo). If I weren’t using it already, the sponsorship would have deterred from trying 😅
This 100%.
I swear, youtube sponsorships are like anti-ads. 9 times out of 10 they’re doing something sketchy.
We’re the minority though.
Agreed. I think (and I’m not sponsored lol) that the only product from YouTube that’s actually good is Harry’s razors
Opera invested $30 million in the crypto startup ICST that same year, and the startup’s CEO was arrested four days later for financial crimes.
LOL
Well, some years ago the crypto startup was all the heat.
Explain why don’t just clickbait me.
Man its fucking sad what’s become of Opera. They gave us tabbed browsing, CSS, and lots of other stuff and then just like that, they became another uninteresting Chromium fork and its been straight to the shitter since.
Many of the O.G. Opera devs founded Vivaldi after Opera was sold to Chinese investors. It’s Chromium, but it has a considerable number of excellent power user features
I believe they also have plans to move beyond Chromium, but a new code base isn’t a quick project… (That said, they do eliminate the tracking features and other questionable elements of the code currently.)
Why is it clickbait? I don’t understand. The article explains the reasons. They don’t fit in the headline.
I had an @operamail email account for years, I was all in!
Hindenburg is an investment firm that researches publicly-traded companies and shorts their stocks if they find sufficient evidence of investor fraud before releasing its report.
What a wild business plan. I’m amazed it’s legal.
It’s kinda scummy to manipulate the market as such, but it’s much more scummy to partake in the fraud.
They’re like the anti-hero of this story.
Hilarious name too, honestly.
The Crash n’ Burn Bois
Short sellers provide benefit to society by finding and shaming doomed businesses so they fail faster and don’t suck up as many resources.
They also have a proud history of uncovering outright fraud.
In business, the people complaining loudest about short sellers are emperors with no clothes.
Stop using Chromium.
I don’t want to touch any Chromium-based browser. Firefox all the way.
I stopped using Opera when the CCP bought up the company a few years ago.
Yeah I mean I wouldn’t use that CCP bullshit.
Yeah, that was a depressing discovery. I didn’t see any news about it but one day randomly wondered how opera could afford to develop a free browser that wasn’t FOSS. Digging into it was surprising. Not quite John McAfee surprising, but still sketchy. Like they were in the predatory banking industry and then there were the ties to China. It wasn’t hard to see that it was time to check out Firefox again.
I stopped using Opera when they dropped their actual product in favor of yet another Chromium-based something.
Opera was effectively the first software I bought, back when they had a trial version in 2001. They had tabbed browsing and mouse gestures, a solid DECADE before they came to any other browser. Lightyears ahead of the competition and worth every penny. I think in 2003 they made it free, and I wasn’t even mad.
I was forced to switch to Firefox at some point when a website I had to use for work was incompatible due to some Java applet that wouldn’t load properly, and then slowly migrated over.
Shame to see what happened to this amazing piece of tech.
It’s really tough to run a business when your competitors are all free as in freedom (Firefox) or free as in funded by monopolistic megacorps (Google, Apple, Microsoft).
To be fair, Opera in the 2000’s was craming every single feature they could think about in their browser.
So sure, they got some interesting features before the others but they also had hundreds of useless features cluttering the UI.
But it was still fast and didn’t gobble up RAM so much (well other than memory leaks, but none of the competitors were free of those either and IE crashing would also crash the desktop because it was the same instance of the same app for some reason).
imagine buying a web browser
Netscape navigator was free on CDs!
You bought the ad-free version, they had a small banner on top. And of course there were key generators and such, back in the days there wasn’t any online key validation. Or you could kill the banner with a local proxy. Still, I actually wanted to support the development, just like I donate to good FOSS software now, or buy android apps to remove ads although I’m already killing them all with adaway on a rooted phone.
Sure, there were free browsers out there, but back then Opera was really way ahead of the bell curve.
Vivaldi Browser is headed by some of the original founders of Opera ASA and is a reasonably good alternative to Google Chrome, MS Edge, Safari and new Opera itself.
Alternatively, use Gecko-based browsers such as Firefox/Waterfox/Iceraven.
Vivaldi is very pretty, but certainly more on the heavy side of the chromium spin-offs, and also they won’t fight the manifest v3 implementation.
Not sure how they could fight manifest v3, it’s Google making an (objectively bad) internal code decision that has knock-on effects for Chromium and everyone else.
FWIW they are going to try and keep things working and are looking for workarounds
God I miss old Opera
Opera died when they killed Presto and pretended they couldn’t make anything like that with blink.
Then the old ones made Vivaldi and proved that was a damned lie.
I’m kind of sad they didn’t choose gecko for Vivaldi.
Currently trying out Floorp after maining Vivaldi for years in preparation for the worst
I can vouch for Floorp being quite good. It also seems to be faster than Waterfox despite having more features built in.
+1 for floorp, it’s really fast
This is the first I’m hearing of floorp, I’ll have to check that out
Just install firefox / waterfox / etc. and be done with it.
…groundfox, and airfox! With all the foxes of infinity collected, I can finally be free.
Long ago, the four foxes lived together in harmony. But everything changed when the firefox attacked…
Due to recent scientific advances, we now know that firefox is actually oxygen fox combining with other molecular foxes and waterfox is one of those products.
And heartfox! By their powers combined…
darkenergyfox has entered the chat
Or floorp
As somebody whose wife just downloaded opera onto the family computer I am horrified.
She’s been complaining that the internet is slow and has blamed it on protonvon, so has resorted to turning the vpn off when using the internet or discord.
I remember after Twin Peaks season 3 came out, showtime was stating left and right how profitable the show was, and then accusations started flying that the show was so profitable because showtime was taking over the browser while people were watching and mining bitcoin in the background without telling people they were doing so.
I trust Opera about a thousand times less just because I had never hears of them until a week or two ago.
Opera has been in the web browser playing field for a long time at this point, but haven’t been super relevant until the last couple years due to GX
It was somewhat hyped to a degree in the mid 2000s. It had a lot of features other browsers hadn’t and many things just worked better, especially using tabs worked much better with them. They also had a linux version when that was not a common thing. Was kinda sad to see them fall.
Yeah, I remember the IT department at work back then (circa 2006) recommending Opera to me. It had features that are more or less mainstream now, like tab reloading on a timer, and all that while running smoothly than any other browser I’ve used at that time.
Since then, I’ve tried a lot of browsers like Vivaldi and Maxthon, but for some reason or the other, like being bloated, or being taken over by entities I don’t trust, had found a reason to move to a different browser. Currently using LibreWolf, and I hope I won’t have any reason to switch browsers anytime soon.
I used Opera way back in high school over 2 decades ago. The name has been around for a long time, but I don’t know how related the current company is to back then… The product certainly isn’t related anymore since it’s just another chromium clone.
It’s was sold to a Chinese company a few years ago.
What’s wrong with firefox?
I used Opera because you could place tabs at the bottom of the window. When Opera became just a Chrome skin, I switched to Firefox because through the Tab Mix Plus extension I could place the tabs to the bottom. When Firefox killed the extension (and many more), I switched to Vivaldi (made by the former Opera team) because it offered tabs on the bottom. Very recently I switched to Waterfox, because @[email protected] told me the browser also allows for tabs to be placed at the bottom. What can I say… I’m a bottom kind of guy…
Any particular reason you want your tabs at the bottom of the window? Aesthetics, work flow, grouping?
Just something I’m used to. I have windows tabs on the bottom, so I’d like to have everything in the same place, rather than move the cursor all over the screen. I guess it’s a holdover back from Netscape days when I had several separate windows open, and they all had their own tab on the Windows task bar.
I like bottoms tbh. 😏 I am using iceraven myself for a year pretty good.
Floorp also has that feature, and Vivaldi’s split tabs
Nothing. Ideally you’ll take a privacy hardened fork though, like Fennec or LibreWolf.
privacy hardened
Can you elaborate? I looked at the page for LibreWolf and as best as I can tell they just change some default settings and add Ublock as a pre installed extension.
I tried using hardened Firefox before moving on to use LibreWolf. Manually hardening Firefox is arguably more powerful than what you’d have with LibreWolf out of the box, but the effort involved in making those changes in the settings and remembering what they are (what they were by default, and what they were changed to) makes it hard to maintain.
makes it hard to maintain.
Do you mean across devices? I don’t think it changes the settings when it updates but i could be wrong.
Back when I tried it, I only had it in one device–which is great, since I dunno if I can do it on more than one device, let alone worry how a hardened Firefox mobile would even look like.
I actually don’t remember if the settings change with updates. But I suppose they don’t (as they don’t either with Librewolf). What I meant with “hard to maintain” is basically keeping note that the hardened Firefox config doesn’t behave like vanilla Firefox (and isn’t expected to). Making some temporary changes to accommodate a “necessary evil” website, you’d have to make note what setting you “temporarily” have to change it to, what the hardened config should be for that setting, and most importantly: remembering to change it back to the hardened config.
So, I guess it’s not really a matter of maintaining the config than being aware of all those config changes (from default). With LibreWolf, I’m just brushing it off as “yeah, that’s how LibreWolf works.”
waterfox is great too
For android there’s iceraven and mull.
Isn’t fennec on android?
I never used fennec.
Yes.
Floorp is also great
They did some awesome browsers back in the early 2000s. I couldn’t think about browsing the web without Opera Mini back then.
And despite being designed to run on potatoes with a 2G connection it somehow felt just as smooth as modern mobile browsers (at least as I remember it). It’s crazy how well it worked considering the hardware and network limitations of the time.
Didn’t opera cache images on their server and feed you a lower res version instead of what the website had? Granted with the limited bandwidth available back then, that was fine but now I don’t think many people would want that.
Exactly this. Lower resolution and added compression. You could click to view full version if needed, but this was a feature as it meant faster loading and a small fraction of the data usage.
In Opera Mini, yes. They also had a less popular but nearly identical browser, Opera Mobile, which didn’t do the proxying and compression. I had an unlimited data plan back then, so I always used Mobile. The performance was great even without compression.
I remember an ex-girlfriend daily driving it on her phone for all kinds of communications, so maybe this is why she preferred it, I never wondered why, I was very happy with my Linux machine and I barely used my mobile phone at those times anyway.
Amazing piece of software. Reliable on the server side, agile and full of features on the mobile side. And they even made sure that sites like Twitter and Facebook could be used in the browser. What a pity the Opera branding ended like this.
