- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/5431344
The enshittification of the internet follows a predictable trajectory: first, platforms are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. It doesn’t have to be this way. Enshittification occurs when companies gobble each other up in an orgy of mergers and acquisitions, reducing the internet to “five giant websites filled with screenshots of text from the other four” (credit to Tom Eastman!), which lets them endlessly tweak their back-ends to continue to shift value from users and business-customers to themselves. The government gets in on the act by banning tweaking by users - reverse-engineering, scraping, bots and other user-side self-help measures - leaving users helpless before the march of enshittification. We don’t have to accept this! Disenshittifying the internet will require antitrust, limits on corporate tweaking - through privacy laws and other protections - and aggressive self-help measures from alternative app stores to ad blockers and beyond!
Because operating a search engine is expensive. I personally use Kagi and love it, but that’s $10/month for unlimited searches.
I tried the 100 free searches from Kagi and compared the results to DDG. In almost every search the results were the same. Even the order. I think the real benefit to Kagi is the lack of ads and tracking, tha’s all.
I think the real reason search sucks these days is the AI they put between you and what your looking for. It’s no longer searching for what you typed, it’s searching for what it thinks you want.
The huge benefit of Kagi is that they allow you to customize results and blacklist SEO spam or deprioritize sites you don’t care about in your results. Out of the box, I’ve had a similar experience with the results being very similar to DDG, though. Over time, I suspect it’d be a better overall experience, but that’s hard to judge in 100 searches.
I’ve been on the fence whether that’s worth the cost to me, but I’ve been increasingly leaning toward biting the bullet.
Thanks for your comment. Those are some useful features that I would not have known about otherwise. I’ll give it another try.
I’ve been giving it a go, too. It does seem to be a bit better overall, with customized site priorities being the coolest part.
I think I could get on board for 5 bucks, but a tenskee a month is something I’ll look at twice whenever I take a critical look at the subscriptions.
I’m test driving it right now too. The subscription cost is easier to spend when you envision taking that $10 away from Google and giving it to kagi.
But google doesn’t cost 10 dollars a month to search…
You’re saying search infrastructure and hardware is free like air?
They have $5 for 300 searches per month
True. I get weird with caps, but maybe 300 would be reasonable. I’ll definitely consider that when the trial runs dry!
I thought i would use more, but i am averaging 2.5 per day which will be just fine. When/if you run out for the month you can always pass “!ddg” into it because its free and doesnt count against you.
That’s a good option on using the bang search.
Ultimately, I just don’t want the overhead of thinking which search engine to use based on quotas. Bang searches would be a little annoying, but less annoying than going to a different site altogether.
Yeah, that is understandable. 300/31 = ~9.677 searches per day so as long as you don’t search that much you are good. I thought i was using way more searches until i actually started tracking it. The quota concerned me too, but i now see i need not have worried.
And since it doesn’t think, the results are predictably awful
Noooo no more subscriptions please. Can we please go back to one time payments for apps/services?
I understand hating subscriptions but in this case a one time payment would require Kagi to continually gain an increasing number of members for eternity or run out of operating money and shut down. You could hope for something donation-based like most Lemmy instances, but just expecting other users to cover your costs is selfish. There’s a difference between asking your users to at least pay what they’re costing you and rent-seeking with things that don’t or shouldn’t cost you a dime to provide. Subscription services have existed for a very, very long time (see: any government that collects taxes), it’s only recently and due to greedy trends that they’ve been becoming a nuisance.
If you want to empower your own sense of privacy and security, you’ll need to accept that you’ve been paying for services with your data or supposed ad views for decades, and some of those services cost money to run.
They could offer both 10$a month or a larger (ex 240$) lifetime buy and give people a choice
I believe Sirius did this and it was a huge boon to their cash flow
I agree that subscriptions for apps becoming the norm is pretty terrible. You should just be able to pay once and use the version you paid for forever, and optionally upgrade to a newer version for a price.
But Kagi is a service. You using their search actively costs them money, so they wouldn’t only not gain any money from you after your one-time purchase, but actually lose money.
That’s not my problem, change the business model away from subscriptions. I will never support the subscription model for literally everything now.
So don’t subscribe. It’s that simple. Did you pay a one-time fee for electricity as well?
Do I pay for Google? Do I pay for Wikipedia? Do I pay for Signal messaging? Do I pay for email? No, I pay for none of that. I pay for internet already, stop making me pay for every little website or app I use as well.
Have tried it and seriously didn’t see any difference between it and Google or duck duck go…
How come Duck duck go was close to Google when Google was really good, bug now both of them are serving just crap? Are we sites getting better at climbing the ladder?
Duck Duck Go just uses Bing’s results. (Startpage uses Google’s.) There’s only a handful of search engines actually crawling the web so it doesn’t take much for all the search sites to suddenly suck at the same time.
Ah that makes sense, thanks!
Kagi currently uses Google and Bing in addition to their own index to serve you search results. They’ll likely only use their own index once it’s complete enough to be a replacement, as the API costs they pay to Google and Bing are not sustainable even with paying customers.
The advantage of Kagi being paid as opposed to being ad-supported is that you get unbiased results, or results with your own bias applied. You can set ratings for domains where you can set their priority in search results or even outright block them.
You can also setup redirects with regular expressions, so you could redirect youtube.com to piped.video for example.
And sure, you can emulate some of these features (like blocking sites from search results and redirects) using browser add-ons, but with Kagi this is integrated right into the search query, and as it’s all server-side it works on all your devices. It’s just very convenient.
Search always used to be free so I get that people find it discomforting having to pay $10/month for it (there’s also a $5/month plan with 300 searches instead of unlimited), but $10/month for something I use dozens of times per day seems like a no-brainer to me.
If it was better, which I do not think it is, I’d consider it. Actually I already did and got my hopes up BTW.
I am in my kagi free trial period and like what i see so far. I already added credit to my account to subscribe once i use my free 100 searches.