Wasn’t expecting this under a random unrelated post. A very welcome comment nonetheless.
Never forget that the exponential boom of renewable energy tech the last 20 years has entirely served as additional energy, not as replacement of fossil fuels.
In the EU at least this is demonstrably false. LNG has slightly risen since 2000 but other fossil fuels (namely coal) have gone way down. Total consumption has been steadily declining in the past few years and is down to 2004 levels. So overall our electricity is a whole shitload cleaner.
Why would you assume I am talking about Europe which accounts for 1/10 of the global energy consumption and why would I be talking the continent that has mostly outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries? Why would you assume this?
Here’s your source. Here’s your total energy consumption. It couldn’t have been that hard to look at our world in data right? How can you be so absolutely wrong about data in plain sight while being confident about it? Do you have an agenda?
Oh god, I forgot you .ml fuckmuppets are incapable of maintaining a civil tone.
Europe is a single market. While it does import goods from elsewhere (namely Asia), from what I remember that does not nearly make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption & emissions.
Developing countries are increasing their emissions as they increase their purchasing power. While there is certainly a debate to be held over the details of that, I do not see how that invalidates my point that renewables don’t just serve to increase overall power consumption.
However if you’re thinking of replying with the same lip you just gave me I suggest instead of responding to my comment, you take your teenage attitude and shove it somewhere the sun don’t shine.
My “attitude” in no way excuses the very offensive remarks on your part, but I guess that’s what happens when you try to defend undefendable claims. You jump from claim to claim, when you are proven wrong, like how you edited out the part where you claim the European trend can be extrapolated to the entire world and you personally attack me with the excuse that I was taken aback by the ignorance on a straightforward Google search.
From what you remember (from where? That’s a good question I guess no one will ever answer us apparently)that does not make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption and emissions. Ok let’s deconstruct that quickly. Consumption has not been decreasing, it has been increasing, proven by the ever rising GDP, which measures exactly that, the total output of goods and services and considering the imports and exports are roughly equal for Europe and that material consumption is coupled to gdp, that’s the consumption.
When I say that Europe has outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries, I wasn’t talking just about “importing goods”. I was talking about their entire production. And the fact that fossil fuel consumption is still ever growing in Europe as well as in the entire West, coupled to the GDP growth is proven in Hickel(2019) “Is green growth possible”, where the domestic material consumption index is proven not to be accounting for the outsourced fossil fuels and materials consumed in third world countries to produce the goods imported, vital for Europe. The actual material footprint(which is the fossil fuel consumption and materials combined) is growing along with the GDP. And when you understand this, you realize it is all an illusion of accounting.
These are your two tragically false claims. For the third paragraph I don’t have much to say besides that third world countries need to increase their GDP to be living comfortably since they are destitute and the first world countries need to degrow like we said. Scientists have been saying this for so many years. There is a space between planetary boundaries and the decent living conditions that all people can and should be living in. The west exceeds the planetary limits(per capita), the economic south is below decent living conditions. That’s what degrowth preaches. It refers to the west, not the world in general.
Wasn’t expecting this under a random unrelated post. A very welcome comment nonetheless.
Never forget that the exponential boom of renewable energy tech the last 20 years has entirely served as additional energy, not as replacement of fossil fuels.
Unexpected but entirely welcome.
People do forget this all too often.
Cheaper stuff, use more , value less.
Source?
In the EU at least this is demonstrably false. LNG has slightly risen since 2000 but other fossil fuels (namely coal) have gone way down. Total consumption has been steadily declining in the past few years and is down to 2004 levels. So overall our electricity is a whole shitload cleaner.
The story is even starker for domestic heating. Gas and coal are vanishing since the mid-2000s.
Why would you assume I am talking about Europe which accounts for 1/10 of the global energy consumption and why would I be talking the continent that has mostly outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries? Why would you assume this?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy?time=2000..latest
Here’s your source. Here’s your total energy consumption. It couldn’t have been that hard to look at our world in data right? How can you be so absolutely wrong about data in plain sight while being confident about it? Do you have an agenda?
Oh god, I forgot you .ml fuckmuppets are incapable of maintaining a civil tone.
Europe is a single market. While it does import goods from elsewhere (namely Asia), from what I remember that does not nearly make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption & emissions.
Developing countries are increasing their emissions as they increase their purchasing power. While there is certainly a debate to be held over the details of that, I do not see how that invalidates my point that renewables don’t just serve to increase overall power consumption.
However if you’re thinking of replying with the same lip you just gave me I suggest instead of responding to my comment, you take your teenage attitude and shove it somewhere the sun don’t shine.
My “attitude” in no way excuses the very offensive remarks on your part, but I guess that’s what happens when you try to defend undefendable claims. You jump from claim to claim, when you are proven wrong, like how you edited out the part where you claim the European trend can be extrapolated to the entire world and you personally attack me with the excuse that I was taken aback by the ignorance on a straightforward Google search.
From what you remember (from where? That’s a good question I guess no one will ever answer us apparently)that does not make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption and emissions. Ok let’s deconstruct that quickly. Consumption has not been decreasing, it has been increasing, proven by the ever rising GDP, which measures exactly that, the total output of goods and services and considering the imports and exports are roughly equal for Europe and that material consumption is coupled to gdp, that’s the consumption.
When I say that Europe has outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries, I wasn’t talking just about “importing goods”. I was talking about their entire production. And the fact that fossil fuel consumption is still ever growing in Europe as well as in the entire West, coupled to the GDP growth is proven in Hickel(2019) “Is green growth possible”, where the domestic material consumption index is proven not to be accounting for the outsourced fossil fuels and materials consumed in third world countries to produce the goods imported, vital for Europe. The actual material footprint(which is the fossil fuel consumption and materials combined) is growing along with the GDP. And when you understand this, you realize it is all an illusion of accounting.
These are your two tragically false claims. For the third paragraph I don’t have much to say besides that third world countries need to increase their GDP to be living comfortably since they are destitute and the first world countries need to degrow like we said. Scientists have been saying this for so many years. There is a space between planetary boundaries and the decent living conditions that all people can and should be living in. The west exceeds the planetary limits(per capita), the economic south is below decent living conditions. That’s what degrowth preaches. It refers to the west, not the world in general.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox.
Edit: the other comment below mentioning this did not load initially…
20 years ago there were 2000000000 fewer people in the world.
too many zeroes I can’t read that number omg
That was my point