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- cross-posted to:
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Death, taxes and this post on Lemmy
i just saw this for the first time and it brought me joy
Cool that average FPS is better but:
The impressive FPS deltas aside, it should be mentioned that, with the exception of Arch Linux, average frame times (measured as 1% lows, in this case) on Linux were generally behind what Windows managed by up to 20%
I feel like worse 1% lows makes this title misleading. Hopefully with time this gap will close.
1 % lows are likely a driver thing (Nvidia calls it “Game Ready Drivers”), with Arch you’ll get new drivers (or kernel versions) much earlier, similar to Windows.
… Then why did they get the results that they did in the article?
The article specifies arch as an exception to that
1 day cannot pass without this article getting reposted across various communities.
I swear people just scroll through lemmy, see a post they like and then think to themselves, “this is cool, I should post this on lemmy!”
Yeah, these are getting really annoying.
It’s okay. Lemmy isn’t a wiki. Content is organized temporally. Imagine these conversations as bar conversations (just because one group had a conversation one night, doesn’t mean another group can’t repeat it the next). If you are annoyed that the algo keeps giving you the same stuff, sort by All and New Comments and you’ll find niche communities to subscribe to.
As someone on Linux, and who thinks performance is generally slightly better on my machine after switching, I totally agree. This post has been old for a while now. Get some more data and then post that new thing or stop posting it.
A Lemmy option to hide posts of links already red in another post would be neat. (First time I see this one though)
Testing done on specific hardware and not a broad spectrum of machines is as relevant as asking one person their political opinion and saying that applies to their whole nation.
Well sure but rephrased it’s just “Three Linux distros that embarrass Windows 11 in gaming performance.” which to me, is equally interesting.
article title: windows DEAD LAST!
also in the same article: “… When it comes to FPS, the overall leader in testing was Nobara Linux, with Arch Linux and Pop!_OS trailing by 1–5%. Windows 11, however, was only 6% behind Nobara Linux. So, **there isn’t a massive performance delta here, **”
“on that one specific machine.”
You’re missing that part from your premise and it’s the important one.
Notice how they didn’t use one with an Nvidia GPU… Or even hardware released this year either…
Edit: Aaaw, I made you angwy and you downvoted me :(
The Nvidia drivers perform fine generally but it would be nice to verify it.
It’s funny because you say that and at the same time it’s the first question asked when someone has a hard time gaming on their Linux setup, “Nvidia GPU?”, even in this thread it’s come up.
Nvidia isnt so bad if you’re on a stable distro it supports and using x(though Ive heard wayland support is improving for it). On rolling or more cutting edge distros where the kernel is likely to change every few weeks and major DE versions might ship that proprietary driver will hurt.
That said while amd is generally better on linux for this reason it’s worth mentioning that it has two huge flaws:
1.Its not perfect like the fans mention. As someone who owned a 3500u and 6650u apu life under amd isnt always sunny. 3500u had a kernel regression for about half a year that prevented the cpu from idling and rembrant apus have an issue where the whole system locks up which seems to come and go(feels like it’s gone for now but Ive thought that before). Desktop gpus are better, but they still did suffer from driver bugs. I think my experience with my 5600xt was better than windows fans had for that generation, but it was not entirely stable and I did suffer from many kernel panics and system freezes. A few mesa and kernel releases fixed that, but it wasnt perfectly smooth. In addition to that no hdmi 2.1 support which is fine unless you game using your nice oled tv because no tvs come with display port. Proprietary drivers do allow for supporting some of the more obnoxious features that arent allowed.
- It can vary gpu/cpu to gpu/cpu for how fresh your software will need to be, but generally newer hardware needs very new kernels just for basic support and it may need a few more releases to get stable or good. So if you want to just sit back with ubutnu LTS or debian you need to make sure the release cycle lines up with support for your hardware. The other end of the spectrum is that being on a bleeding or cutting edge distro can mean stability issues and regressions. So for example a month or three ago fedora pushed a kernel update that had a regression where my 6800xt gpu wouldnt clock up when utilized so gaming framerates tanked and retroarch shaders were choking up. I could just use the old kernel but I had to make sure that the kernel updates didnt bump it away. Also an entire point release and several releases after that before the bug was fixed.
So while there is a lot of pro amd comments in the linux world and its worth acknowledging that the open source drivers are generally good it’s not perfect and the grass isnt always greener.
Just from that comment we can see how far from mainstream adoption Linux is for gaming… You really need to want to understand how things work to fix things that might not work natively. Not every gamer wants to be super knowledgeable about computers, most just want to play games. Heck, I’m very good with computers and I know that what little time I have to play games I don’t want to spend trying to make them work…
What do the performance metrics look like for the games that won’t run on Linux?
you mean the rootkits that won’t run on Linux?
When did ‘rootkit’ come to be a generic term for invasive software? Rootkits are a specific type of thing.
Anticheats that run in the NT kernel may as well be described as rootkits, especially as they aren’t transparent about exactly what they’re doing. Then there’s the question of what happens if they get compromised
Vanguard, BattlEye, EasyAntiCheat, Ricochet, etc… all run in the Windows Kernel and most, if not all, have the functionality to run arbitrary code, so might as well class them as rootkits.
Because “rootkit” sounds more ominous and scary than “kernel level anticheat” and the communities complaining about such things aren’t known to keep hyperbole to a minimum. Gotta push that FUD.
This article for instance, using language that insinuates a huge gap in performance between the Linux distros and windows, when it’s a 6% difference between the best and the worst, on one set of hardware.
About the same as Spiderman 2 or Ghost of Tsushima on Windows.
News flash, Windows is garbage.
Jawohl, jawohl.
I’ve been out of the industry for a while, but unless Windows was completely rewritten from the ground up in the last 5 years, this doesn’t surprise me. That OS has always been a hot, bloated mess. And no, I’m not a Linux bro. I use another heavily commercialised OS that doesn’t run Windows because I no longer have the energy to care.
An OS written on Unix can outperform Windows? I’m shocked.
windows is overbloated garbage
Maybe. But it does so in ALL OF THE GAMES!!!
Linux has all the games I care about. So no need for windowd
Unless you’re super into Fortnite or CoD, Linux plays virtually all of them too.
I can’t get Spiderman 2 or Ghost of Tsushima to run on Windows. What am I doing wrong?
I’ve heard that Linux’s task scheduler is just much better than windows’, so it kinda makes sense that all would beat Windows.
A scientific judgement for sure.
I recently switched to Linux this year (finally), and my experience has been the same.
Not only that, but in some cases, playing a Windows version of a game with Proton seems to work better than the native Linux runtime.
Edit: I use Arch, btw. (lol jk I use EndeavorOS, which is based on Arch)
amen, i love EndeavorOS. i’ve jettisoned all Windows support in my house and anything that needs Windows gets put into an isolated VLAN that can’t talk to anything else. and for the archaic business crap that only has a Windows release, CrossOver is a godsend. same CodeWeavers devs that made Proton and is essentially Wine Premium.
I’m not an expert in networking stuff… If I am using a Windows 11 laptop (owned by my work) on the same network as my personal laptop while working at home, am I putting my privacy/data/etc. at risk? Should I be sequestering the work laptop in some way?
it wouldn’t hurt. i wish my work would just give me a VM to remote into instead of dealing with it on my network, at least in my case all the EDA tools I use are ran on Linux anyway… my last employer put so much
spyware“security” software on their work issued laptops that Suricata on my router/firewall would light up like a Christmas tree. no idea what it was trying to do without breaking out Wireshark and analyzing captures, but that’s when i said enough is enough… can’t be trusted.
This has been reposted enough to where I’m going to start blocking accounts that continue to post it 😎
I think it’s a combination of reposting on Lemmy, multiple communities posting similar stories, and news sites regurgitating results from other sites like it’s fresh news.
Agree. My gripe with this article is that I’ve seen it posted on ~6+ communities. I love that Linux is beating windows in gaming benchmarks, but I think the title sensationalizes it the out performance a slight bit.
Since Steam stops working on Win7 in january I was forced to update the OS and I went with Ubuntu since the newer windows seem like plain garbage and spyware. Installing the OS was a huge hassle and getting DayZ to run on it wasn’t without an issue either but it works now and the performance seems to be about the same. I only use the Linux machine for occasional gaming so it’ll do but I’m not sure if I could daily drive it. Everything seems to need you to do something in terminal which I understand nothing about and aren’t interested in learning.
You may be more interested in the Steam Deck, a ready-to-go Linux gaming system that doesn’t require terminal proficiency. Just turn it on and play like a Nintendo Switch.
I don’t feel like buying yet another device when I already have a decent gaming rig. I’ve got a PS4 too but I never use it because I prefer using a mouse and keyboard.
I’m not deep on how the core of an OS works, but to my understanding, the kernel of linux should be more robust and reliable, shouldn’t it always be performing better than windows on the same hardware?
Where could I read information on the things that hinder performance on linux, does anybody have any educational resources?
On Linux, you run windows programs through wine, which is an additional layer that can theoretically slow down the program.
Also, windows supports certain constructs like io completion ports or WaitForMultipleObjects that historically haven’t been emulated efficiently on Linux since it lacked comparable primitives, although those specific ones have been greatly improved in recent years with io_uring and FUTEX_WAIT_MULTIPLE.
There have been similar issues with direct3D since wine used to have to emulate it in OpenGL, but with vkd3d, wine has more opportunities to efficiently implement the d3d apis.
Basically wine being slower was the norm until quite recently.
Thanks to the one crazy guy valve contracts making proton… It’s crazy how his work basically made gaming on Linux a thing. But yeah the other major thing, which you mentioned, is games/game engines using directX9, directX10 and directX11 (the windows 3d graphics libraries) have their API/rendering calls mapped directly to Vulkan. Those APIs were easier to use but from my understanding (I’m no graphics expert) didn’t have the ability to use the full potential of the hardware, and basically had a single channel/thread to the GPU. DirectX12 and Vulkan are much more difficult to use, and some games have used them horribly such that DX11 performs better than DX12, but a good implementation can take advantage of multichannel/multithreaded communication to the GPU allowing much faster and efficient data transfer. They allow the engine programmer to have much more control of the hardware. So vkd3d/proton gives that massive performance impact by mapping the graphics calls from an older API to a newer one. I have not looked into how it’s implemented but it’s basically magic. This was the main reason why wine kinda sucked for gaming before proton.
The Windows scheduler is actually pretty decent, it’s been a few years since I looked into it but I think Windows soft-real time scheduling was better than the one Linux used, though idk if games even use that.
The thing holding Linux back, mostly just for online games with anticheat, is anticheat developers reluctance to port to Linux. I believe do to the differences between users pace and kernel space on Windows VS Linux makes bypassing the anticheat on Linux much easier, or the anticheat can use the same tricks that it does on windows.
